Hmmm, I guess the right place to start is with the fact that these gang members never should have crossed the border, password (amnesty) or not. “Someone” else exasperated the problem by a factor of 10,000 times or higher!. And now people get angry at the fix. How easy to “just be angry” but not fix. And doing nothing is wrong. With millions to handle, are we to just say “okay?” That is so unfair to me. Don’t I matter? Aren’t my tax dollars flying over to them instead of back to me and other citizens? And since when do non-citizens gain the rights of citizens?
That said, here is where we can agree. Each undocumented (illegal) should have some type of process, but it should not take months or years to intentionally delay and delay. That’s why we have this ENORMOUS problem; no one was doing anything reasonable. If they are a citizen that’s easy to prove. Can a mistake be made? Of course, since absolutely nothing is perfect – nothing. This is headline news because for the past 16, 12, 8 and especially the last 4 years, no one in power cared. They shoved it forward to purposely let it be someone else’s headache. Well, that’s changed, now it is getting done. And let’s not forget, any gang member can leave right now on their own, on their own terms. Stay and get caught, oh well, you were warned.
I think that you and I would agree that Joe Biden was massively irresponsible to remove Trump's functioning immigration measures - literally on his first day in office - and call for asylum seekers to 'surge to the border'. He must have known that there were nowhere near enough asylum judges to deal with that many hearings. He let the problem compound itself for three years before tightening the belt, to increase his odds of getting re-elected. That was governmental malpractice on his part. HE should be held accountable. Not the immigrants who did as directed and surged to the border.
Given that asylum seekers were led to believe that they'd have a good chance of being granted legal status, it is UNJUST to lay the blame on them. The Venezuelan make-up artist sneaked into the country in 2024. Kilmar Abrego Garcia, has been in the US for many years. I believe he came across during the Obama administration. ??
Trump cannot be blamed for either man being here. But neither can these guys themselves be blamed for seeking a new life in a country with a schizophrenic border policy. They must be processed fairly. If that means doubling the number of asylum courts, then that's what we have to do.
Or else we're no better than the countries they fled. Why should they bear the brunt of MAGA's anger at Democrats?
I'm not 'angry at the fix'. But randomly imprisoning misguided immigrants is not a fix that makes any moral sense to me.
Yup, but to a point. I don't see it as totally random. I clearly remember Biden saying "Don't." I know, it's laughable, but then again not. In my opinion, most "asylum" seekers were truly just people wanting to be here and they therefore should have used our very gracious legal immigration system (the USA approved more people per year to come in than any other nation on Earth, right?). But they saw a hole in the fence and went trough it. The USA cannot just accept huge uncontrollable numbers of people, plain and simple. It is unfair to citizens and unfair to my tax dollar. We have a system for immigration that got completely ignored and the crossers (and coyotes) knew it. Dave, we're not exactly at odds on this one, just the methodology. And I'll bet we both know in our heart that when the worst get removed, being the true criminals and gang members, the rest will gain a pathway to citizenship. There's no other realistic solution.
... absolutely brilliant Dave.... your notes about what is terrorism...resonate broadly in the US... ruthless, illegal and merciless taxation and government bloat... the root of our below replacement birth rate, leading to national collapse historically.
I may not agree with most of this, but you did lay out your arguments extremely well and we could debate fine point or bigger picture all day long. Or just agree to disagree agree.
We also have the opportunity to find common ground. Glad to read that yes those looking for trouble should go, those looking for a better life should follow the process and seek it where it can be found.
As someone who has worked with migrants all my life and worked with our immigration system for 40 years, it feels so supportive to have someone from outside tell the truth about what is happening, particularly the terrible human costs of the current unprecedented policies. I too have tried to escape in various ways, seeking for R&R instead of leaving the field, in a never-ending battle to just help -- not even to attempt to stop an uncontained fire but just to give people the spiritual fortification needed to not be emotionally destroyed, particularly the extended family members and pastors or fellow church members of the deported ones. If these family members are destroyed by this experience, their children are damaged, their work is not done well, their anguish maybe even affects our commons. The stones of these violations of the deepest values of our democracy send ripples throughout our society. After 9/11, it took a long time for me to walk around that part of NYC without feeling the gray pall in the air and imagining screams. I have not been on a larger national phone call of Latino leaders without hearing a horror story in weeks. Thank you, Dave, for being a fair and persuasive witness.
A long time ago, Dave, I was like you, a simple minded liberal living in Santa Monica. Then I traveled overseas. Spent a lot of time going across this country. And I spent 18 years as a prison guard. That’s when I realized that many of my so-called beliefs were nonsense, based on non-reality. Love to hear your ideas, even though they are fantasy based, because the real rule in gangs is, blood in, blood out. You can redeem people who are redeemable. But most of the folks in prison are not redeemable. Beware the doublespeak used by the left: he is not a Maryland father, he is an illegal alien gang member. These are not undocumented immigrants, they are illegal aliens. George Orwell was right, it is so easy to manipulate people by changing history and changing the language. From Oregon, Zeke.
Hmmm, I guess the right place to start is with the fact that these gang members never should have crossed the border, password (amnesty) or not. “Someone” else exasperated the problem by a factor of 10,000 times or higher!. And now people get angry at the fix. How easy to “just be angry” but not fix. And doing nothing is wrong. With millions to handle, are we to just say “okay?” That is so unfair to me. Don’t I matter? Aren’t my tax dollars flying over to them instead of back to me and other citizens? And since when do non-citizens gain the rights of citizens?
That said, here is where we can agree. Each undocumented (illegal) should have some type of process, but it should not take months or years to intentionally delay and delay. That’s why we have this ENORMOUS problem; no one was doing anything reasonable. If they are a citizen that’s easy to prove. Can a mistake be made? Of course, since absolutely nothing is perfect – nothing. This is headline news because for the past 16, 12, 8 and especially the last 4 years, no one in power cared. They shoved it forward to purposely let it be someone else’s headache. Well, that’s changed, now it is getting done. And let’s not forget, any gang member can leave right now on their own, on their own terms. Stay and get caught, oh well, you were warned.
Sorry, I don’t need to be right, just heard.
I think that you and I would agree that Joe Biden was massively irresponsible to remove Trump's functioning immigration measures - literally on his first day in office - and call for asylum seekers to 'surge to the border'. He must have known that there were nowhere near enough asylum judges to deal with that many hearings. He let the problem compound itself for three years before tightening the belt, to increase his odds of getting re-elected. That was governmental malpractice on his part. HE should be held accountable. Not the immigrants who did as directed and surged to the border.
Given that asylum seekers were led to believe that they'd have a good chance of being granted legal status, it is UNJUST to lay the blame on them. The Venezuelan make-up artist sneaked into the country in 2024. Kilmar Abrego Garcia, has been in the US for many years. I believe he came across during the Obama administration. ??
Trump cannot be blamed for either man being here. But neither can these guys themselves be blamed for seeking a new life in a country with a schizophrenic border policy. They must be processed fairly. If that means doubling the number of asylum courts, then that's what we have to do.
Or else we're no better than the countries they fled. Why should they bear the brunt of MAGA's anger at Democrats?
I'm not 'angry at the fix'. But randomly imprisoning misguided immigrants is not a fix that makes any moral sense to me.
Yup, but to a point. I don't see it as totally random. I clearly remember Biden saying "Don't." I know, it's laughable, but then again not. In my opinion, most "asylum" seekers were truly just people wanting to be here and they therefore should have used our very gracious legal immigration system (the USA approved more people per year to come in than any other nation on Earth, right?). But they saw a hole in the fence and went trough it. The USA cannot just accept huge uncontrollable numbers of people, plain and simple. It is unfair to citizens and unfair to my tax dollar. We have a system for immigration that got completely ignored and the crossers (and coyotes) knew it. Dave, we're not exactly at odds on this one, just the methodology. And I'll bet we both know in our heart that when the worst get removed, being the true criminals and gang members, the rest will gain a pathway to citizenship. There's no other realistic solution.
As always, thought provoking and beautifully written.
... absolutely brilliant Dave.... your notes about what is terrorism...resonate broadly in the US... ruthless, illegal and merciless taxation and government bloat... the root of our below replacement birth rate, leading to national collapse historically.
I may not agree with most of this, but you did lay out your arguments extremely well and we could debate fine point or bigger picture all day long. Or just agree to disagree agree.
We also have the opportunity to find common ground. Glad to read that yes those looking for trouble should go, those looking for a better life should follow the process and seek it where it can be found.
As someone who has worked with migrants all my life and worked with our immigration system for 40 years, it feels so supportive to have someone from outside tell the truth about what is happening, particularly the terrible human costs of the current unprecedented policies. I too have tried to escape in various ways, seeking for R&R instead of leaving the field, in a never-ending battle to just help -- not even to attempt to stop an uncontained fire but just to give people the spiritual fortification needed to not be emotionally destroyed, particularly the extended family members and pastors or fellow church members of the deported ones. If these family members are destroyed by this experience, their children are damaged, their work is not done well, their anguish maybe even affects our commons. The stones of these violations of the deepest values of our democracy send ripples throughout our society. After 9/11, it took a long time for me to walk around that part of NYC without feeling the gray pall in the air and imagining screams. I have not been on a larger national phone call of Latino leaders without hearing a horror story in weeks. Thank you, Dave, for being a fair and persuasive witness.
Thoughtfully, beautifully and compassionately done- Dave. But most of all, educational and informative! Bravo. 👏
A long time ago, Dave, I was like you, a simple minded liberal living in Santa Monica. Then I traveled overseas. Spent a lot of time going across this country. And I spent 18 years as a prison guard. That’s when I realized that many of my so-called beliefs were nonsense, based on non-reality. Love to hear your ideas, even though they are fantasy based, because the real rule in gangs is, blood in, blood out. You can redeem people who are redeemable. But most of the folks in prison are not redeemable. Beware the doublespeak used by the left: he is not a Maryland father, he is an illegal alien gang member. These are not undocumented immigrants, they are illegal aliens. George Orwell was right, it is so easy to manipulate people by changing history and changing the language. From Oregon, Zeke.
Educational
yes
Dave did you come across this firsthand account of what appears to be going on regarding illegal immigration? If so what is your take?
https://x.com/BretWeinstein/status/1753219510189125836?lang=en